tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post2788610946777683151..comments2023-10-07T05:24:14.956-04:00Comments on Skeptical Observations: The Right-Wing Evangelical Libel against HaitiMiles Rindhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03733605717776262840noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post-73131254233527139152010-04-28T22:18:27.095-04:002010-04-28T22:18:27.095-04:00That's interesting. I did not know that. I'...That's interesting. I did not know that. I'd be very curious to see more about that.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post-33920896425387732012010-04-27T23:41:46.967-04:002010-04-27T23:41:46.967-04:00Actually, Joshua, the business about the celebrant...Actually, Joshua, the business about the celebrants drinking the pig's blood is pretty well founded. It is in the best sources (such as they are) that we have for what went on at Bois Caïman, and, as I recall reading somewhere, such a practice exists in the African antecedents of Voodoo. Unfortunately, these matters are no longer fresh in my mind, and right now I haven't time enough to comb through the notes that I accumulated when researching this topic. I might conceivably return to it in another blog post, though.Miles Rindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733605717776262840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post-4386951536438035762010-04-27T23:30:54.617-04:002010-04-27T23:30:54.617-04:00Well, the pig claim is by all accounts not very re...Well, the pig claim is by all accounts not very reliable (and presumably if he had been a Muslim he would not have been making deals with the devil anyways). I don't think that this highly questionable story says anything useful about Boukman's religious background.<br /><br />Note also that there have been (and in some places still are) forms of Islam which aren't as strictly monotheist as what we normally think of as Islamic monotheism. Thus, for example, belief in djinn was acceptable. But the general point is valid. It would be really weird if Boukman had been any sort of sincere Muslim. Also, although we have very little data about him, that's likely the sort of data that would have stood out.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post-67429848402912176812010-01-28T17:50:21.955-05:002010-01-28T17:50:21.955-05:00I wish that I could edit my first comment to add t...I wish that I could edit my first comment to add to it instead of posting a third one (with no assurance that Pierre or anybody else will read any of these), but I am embarrassed that I gave such a lame reason for doubting that Dutty Boukman was a Muslim when the glaring fact is that the rite in which he is supposed to have participated involved <i>the killing of a pig and the drinking of its blood.</i> To an observant Muslim, such an act would be as much an abomination as it would be to an observant Jew, the pig being an unclean animal for both.Miles Rindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733605717776262840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post-21818667014959211092010-01-26T00:40:42.412-05:002010-01-26T00:40:42.412-05:00Whoops! I have to make a correction to my previous...Whoops! I have to make a correction to my previous comment. I said that Haitian Voodoo "is not a religion that was carried over from Africa." Strictly speaking, that is true, but trivially so: <i>Haitian</i> Voodoo, as such, is distinctive of Haiti. But Voodoo in a more general sense is not, as I learned from the Wikipedia article "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_African_Vodun" rel="nofollow">West African Vodun</a>": "Vodun or Vudun . . . (so spelled in the Fon language of Benin and the Ewe language of Togo and Ghana; also spelled Vodon, Vodoun, Voudou, Voodoo etc.) is a traditional Polytheistic organised religion of coastal West Africa, from Nigeria to Ghana." So what Pierre wrote was entirely correct: "Vaudou begin in Africa." I would still raise doubt, however, about his assertion that it was "the template for all the other religions."Miles Rindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733605717776262840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post-41289880629474247202010-01-25T20:24:04.041-05:002010-01-25T20:24:04.041-05:00Thanks for the comment, Pierre. I have been readin...Thanks for the comment, Pierre. I have been reading a bit about Vaudou/Vodou/Voudon/Voodoo, and I am aware that it is a blend of elements from various religions of Africa as well as Catholicism and Islam. It is not, however, a religion that was carried over from Africa but a distinctively Haitian <i>mélange</i> of diverse religions. It therefore cannot be said to be the "template" of other religions, though it certainly could be a descendant of some original African religion that is such a template. However, such a hypothesis would be at least as remote from all possible empirical test as the hypothesis that all human languages descend from a common original African tongue.<br /><br />As for the idea that Boukman was a Muslim, there is actually very little information about him that can be called "knowledge," as contrasted with lore and speculation, of which this particular idea is an example. Given the severity of Muslim monotheism, and given that Voodoo recognizes the existence of many "lwa" or spirits (including one named "Dumballah": probably derived in some fashion from "Allah" but for that very reason extremely unlikely to be acceptable to a Muslim), he would have to have been a very ill-educated and heretical Muslim at best.Miles Rindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733605717776262840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8484964530322163939.post-55017950896219365462010-01-25T18:26:40.619-05:002010-01-25T18:26:40.619-05:00According to Anthropologists and Scientists,Africa...According to Anthropologists and Scientists,Africa is the cradle of humanity. Vaudou begin in Africa and it has been the template for all the other religions. This is why there are strong similarities between the Vaudou Judaism and many other religions.<br />According to historians,Dutty Boukman [Bookman] was a Muslim and a Vaudou Priest or Hougan.<br />Humanity during its pre-scientific stage of development invented the myth of angel,devil and god in order to cope with the harsh realities of this world.This concept is no longer useful because it outlives its purpose. Right now mankind is using religion as a tool for war of conquest and as a pacifier.Pierre F. Lherissonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04845806085032796604noreply@blogger.com